MYTH: Media Present U.S. Oil Production As A Solution To High Gas Prices. .......... In recent months, all of the broadcast and cable news networks except NBC mentioned expanded domestic drilling as a factor that has or would lower gasoline prices. [Media Matters, 3/20/12] _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fox News incessantly promotes drilling as a solution to gas price spikes. For instance, Fox contributor *** Morris said that "the United States now has the capacity so to increase the global supply of oil that we can, in the future, completely control gas and oil prices" and that "the United States can affect this price and the answer is 'drill, baby drill.'" [Fox News, The O'Reilly Factor, 3/16/12, via Nexis] __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Experts: Changes In U.S. Production Are Small Factor Given Scale Of Global Oil Market. At least 20 economists and energy experts from across the ideological spectrum have explained that increasing U.S. oil production will not prevent gas price spikes because oil is priced on a global market, which is influenced by much larger factors like growing demand from Asia and geopolitical conflicts. [Media Matters, 3/22/12] ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Survey Of Economists Confirms That U.S. Policy Doesn't Dictate Gasoline Prices. In a survey of economists by the Chicago Booth School of Business, not one disagreed with the statement that "Changes in U.S. gasoline prices over the past 10 years have predominantly been due to market factors rather than U.S. federal economic or energy policies." [Chicago Booth School of Business, 3/19/11] ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Statistical Analysis Shows No Correlation Between Gasoline Prices And U.S. Oil Production. An Associated Press analysis of 36 years of data "shows no statistical correlation between how much oil comes out of U.S. wells and the price at the pump," underscoring the fact that any impact on price from changes in U.S. oil production is swamped by the more dominant factors influencing the oil market. [Associated Press, 3/21/12] ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FACT: Keystone XL Would Have Little To No Impact On Gas Prices. ................................................... MYTH: Media Tie Keystone XL Pipeline To Gasoline Prices. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fox News has repeatedly claimed Keystone XL would lower gasoline prices. For instance, Fox News anchor Bill Hemmer said: "So long as gasoline is getting higher, that's all the Republicans have to say is 'Keystone.'" [Media Matters, 2/23/12] ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ All the broadcast and cable news networks have tied Keystone XL to gas prices in the last few months. [Media Matters, 3/20/12] ..... Several major print outlets and NPR have uncritically reported the claim that the Keystone XL pipeline would lower gas prices. [New York Times, 2/1/12] ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Economists And Energy Analysts Say KXL Would Have An Imperceptible Effect On Gasoline Prices. Energy experts Severin Borenstein, Andrew Leach, Michael Levi, and Chris Lafakis have each stated that the pipeline would have little if any impact on gasoline prices. Borenstein, for instance, said the pipeline would "bring additional oil to the world market, starting around 2020. The effect on oil prices then will be miniscule, the effect in the next couple years nonexistent." Even Ray Perryman, the economist hired by TransCanada to assess the economic benefits of the pipeline, said the effect would be "modest" and likely "swamped by the day-to-day factors that impact market prices." [Media Matters, 2/23/12] _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FactCheck.org: "There's Nothing To Prevent More Canadian Oil From Coming Into The U.S. Right Now." In a post criticizing a political ad which claimed that President Obama "blocked the Keystone pipeline, so we will all pay more at the pump," FactCheck.org noted: ............................................... [T]here's nothing to prevent more Canadian oil from coming into the U.S. right now, should Canada be able and willing to send it. Existing cross-border pipelines already have much more capacity than they are using. Those pipelines have the capacity to bring in more than 1 million barrels per day of additional Canadian oil, according to a study produced for the U.S. State Department by EnSys Energy & Systems Inc. of Lexington, Mass., in December 2010. And the study predicts that surplus capacity will persist at least until the year 2020, even if the Keystone is never built (see table 3-4). The 700,000 barrels that McConnell refers to is the additional surplus capacity that the Keystone's northern leg would provide. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ [FactCheck.org, 3/30/12] Some Analysts Say The Pipeline Could Actually Increase Gas Prices In Some Parts Of The Country. Because the Southern portion of the Keystone XL pipeline would relieve the current glut of oil in the Midwest, some energy analysts believe it would raise gasoline prices there. [Media Matters, 2/23/12]

THIS DESERVES REPEATING ............................................................................. "" [T]here's nothing to prevent more Canadian oil from coming into the U.S. right now, should Canada be able and willing to send it. Existing cross-border pipelines already have much more capacity than they are using. Those pipelines have the capacity to bring in more than 1 million barrels per day of additional Canadian oil, according to a study produced for the U.S. State Department by EnSys Energy & Systems Inc. of Lexington, Mass., in December 2010. And the study predicts that surplus capacity will persist at least until the year 2020, even if the Keystone is never built (see table 3-4). The 700,000 barrels that McConnell refers to is the additional surplus capacity that the Keystone's northern leg would provide.""

According to what I have read the Keystone pipeline will NOT decrease gas prices either it will INCREASE gas prices,  Canada wants the pipeline because without it they will have an over supply of oil needing to be refined so that it can be shipped overseas at higher prices and if they do not get the Keystone pipeline finished oil prices in Canada will be depressed and therefore cheaper  for us here.  if they do get  it oil prices will not be depressed in Canada, and it will cost us more.

too bad the majority of cross border pipelines are big inch natural gas lines, but why argue with the cut and paste sky is falling moron....look that up and cut and paste the truth for once!

Not I .! You will have to address your frustration to the U.S. State Department by EnSys Energy & Systems Inc. And I doubt that they would have overlooked pipeline compatibility. ...as you imply.

Not implied at all, only a fool that knows absolutely nothing about the natural gas pipelines would suggest or even repeat such garbage, you cant run crude through a gas compressor station! LIQUIDS DO NOT COMPRESS! THEY PUMP!

There are five major Canadian petroleum export pipelines, ...Canadian natural gas exports cross into the United States at 25 entry points across the length of the border through major and minor pipelines _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Petroleum production from oil sands is the key driver behind the growth in Canadian petroleum exports. Oil sands are mixtures of sand, water, and bitumen. ..... When oil sands, also known as tar sands, are included, Canada’s petroleum reserves rank second in the world behind Saudi Arabia’s. ... Canada has an estimated 143.1 billion barrels of petroleum reserves, of which 81% are from oil sands. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Canadian oil sands is controversial because it has significant environmental impacts, including emissions of greenhouse gases during extraction and processing (that exceed emissions from conventional oil production), disturbance of mined land, and impacts on wildlife and water quality. .... Since bitumen in oil sands cannot be pumped from a conventional well, it must be mined, usually using strip mining or open pit techniques, or the oil can be extracted using underground heating methods, which require large amounts of water and natural gas (for heating) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Bitumen is a black, sticky, and viscous substance that naturally occurs as a byproduct of decomposed organic materials. In the United States, bitumen is also known as asphalt, a binder mixed with aggregate in road surfaces. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Five major pipelines with a combined capacity of 3.3 Mbpd currently link Canadian petroleum producing regions to markets in the United States. ..... Two of these pipelines, Alberta Clipper and Keystone, with a combined capacity of just under 0.9 Mbpd (26% of the total) began service last year. A permit application for a sixth pipeline, Keystone XL, which would add an additional 0.8 Mbpd of capacity, is on hold. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Now, here's where you need to tell the truth Iceman. Given that Canada actually supplied the United States 2.5 Mbpd in 2010, large increases in Canadian supply will ultimately be possible, although the industry anticipates significant excess pipeline capacity for the next decade. ... _____________________________________________________________________ (LET ME REPEAT THAT LAST SENTENCE AGAIN, and this is according to the "Congressional Research Service latest report, "" LARGE INCREASES in Canadian SUPPLY WILL ULTIMATELY BE POSSIBLE, ALTHOUGH the INDUSTRY ANTICIPATES SIGNIFICANT "EXCESS PIPELINE CAPACITY for THE NEXT DECADE"" _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ So, as that dork, Bill'ow 'O Reilly would say. "What Say You" Iceman ..... or is the industry friendly CRS report also to be dismissed and ridiculed ?

i didnt bother to read the uber long seti post but i believe iceman is scientifically correct. liquids do not compress.

blackdragon I don't think it matters that liquids do not compress. Seems the debate is whether Canadian pipelines or at full capacity or NOT and whether the Keystone pipelines projects will save us money or COST us more money .***********************************NRDC and Oil Change International released a report today showing that the proposed Keystone XL tar sands pipeline would undermine U.S. energy security and increase the price of Canadian crude.*************************** Canada doesn’t produce enough crude to fill the pipelines it already has. In fact, crude export pipelines to the United States are currently running half empty.********************************************** That means that another pipeline isn’t going to bring more oil into the United States – it’s just going to take the oil that was already coming to a different place.******************************** Keystone XL will take oil from the Midwest to the Gulf Coast – where it can be sold on the international market where the price for many petroleum products is higher. Exporting Canadian crude at higher prices on the world market may increase profits for the tar sands industry, but it undermines U.S. energy security and increases prices for American consumers

Yes I think most of us know that blackdragons10, and no one is disputing that. Iceman is implying that their aren't sufficient oil pipelines to transport all that fossil fuels gook, and the fact is that we have an abundance of 'OIL" pipelines, and according to CRS (congressional research service) we would still have excess capacity in ten years even if we didn't build another cross border pipeline in the interim. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Maybe you should read the "ubber" long seti post ...lol ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

blackdragons10:

i didnt bother to read the uber long seti post but i believe iceman is scientifically correct. liquids do not compress.

I find barb, iceman, and roberts posts eaiser to read. last time i took the time to read one of those it sounded like Magoo just with a liberal viewpoint. I'll look more into this but if it comes down to JUST whether we get oil from canada or the middle east then id like to see keystone built. but im sure theere seems to be other factors. unfortunetly i think we will get to the point that you cant have too much oil regardless of the problems

I believe I've just been utterly insulted ...lol. The difference between Magoo's posts and just about everyone else's posts here is simply the difference between, fact and fiction, the insane and the coherent, and night and day. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

blackdragons10:

I find barb, iceman, and roberts posts eaiser to read. last time i took the time to read one of those it sounded like Magoo just with a liberal viewpoint. I'll look more into this but if it comes down to JUST whether we get oil from canada or the middle east then id like to see keystone built. but im sure theere seems to be other factors. unfortunetly i think we will get to the point that you cant have too much oil regardless of the problems

blackdragons10:

I find barb, iceman, and roberts posts eaiser to read. last time i took the time to read one of those it sounded like Magoo just with a liberal viewpoint. I'll look more into this but if it comes down to JUST whether we get oil from canada or the middle east then id like to see keystone built. but im sure theere seems to be other factors. unfortunetly i think we will get to the point that you cant have too much oil regardless of the problems

My problem with Keystone is it is for transporting oil to refineries to ship overseas and none of the reports I have read show any increase in oil sold to us for use here in America,  and according to all the reports I read it will create more profit for Canada by allowing them to increase their oil prices, but it wll just cost us more here.

Nice try seti, we did the Alberta Clipper line 3 years ago and as for the Keystone, it is a 36" that terminates in Cushing Ok with the majority of its crude volume originating from US wells. As for the Clipper line its termination in Whiting is on hold due to a major refit and outage.

Wall Street Journal reported last week that oil lines from Canada to US are at or near capacity. Canada will build a pipeline. If it goes to U.S. refineries we get jobs to build the line and jobs to refine the oil. If they build it to the west coast we get nothing and China does the refining in their plants. More political fighting sending jobs to China.

Thanks Dr. but try not to confuse the lefties with facts, for some reason they choose to believe releases from the propaganda ministry!

Wallstreet Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch and his editor was broke in on Fox cable news BS. LMAO Sorry DR Z  I have more confidence in reports directly from TransCanada. 

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers •By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans. •TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”     Most jobs gained will be temporary and so far the majority of them have been LOW PAID manual labor jobs. according to reports from North Dakota and Iceman himself on another thread  admitted  the jobs in South Dakota were mostly temp and  low paid cause the lines there were smaller or something to that effect.  

Fact: Drilling is not a solution to Gas price spikes...Absolutely True....As anyone one of us should easily be able to tell, the price of crude does not reflect the supply and demand for the Product....Wall street is using oil as a hedge against currencies...Just as we saw in 2008 when wall street ran oil up to 140/bbl the current price is based on the speculators not supply and demand...Heck demand is down and production us up and everyone knows that should = low prices........................................................................................................................................So Drilling obviously wont lower prices if supply is high and demand is low....Of course the reason wall can and does use oil as a hedge is because of the fact that demand will rise as soon as the economy gets rolling again...and therefore it is a safe place to park money....but it cost us a bunch of money just to give them a place to park their money and we all pay for it...it is a subsidy for the Rich, it is BS...Speculation is Oil and Gas needs to be regulated...as in you must be able to use the product as part of your business. Goldman Sachs Should not be getting fat on our need for fuel...They don't drill for it they don't refine it they don't pump it or pipe nope...they just shuffle paper...and collect their take...So no...Drilling will not Lower Prices as long as Speculators find oil to be a viable hedge against risk...or as long as we let them...With oil it is especially damaging as oil is used in everything...Gold at least isn't that important...

Barbara Jones:

Wallstreet Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch and his editor was broke in on Fox cable news BS. LMAO Sorry DR Z  I have more confidence in reports directly from TransCanada. 

BULL$HIT, I worked for them and you still drool on seti's cut and pastes