Barbara Jones:

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers •By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans. •TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”     Most jobs gained will be temporary and so far the majority of them have been LOW PAID manual labor jobs. according to reports from North Dakota and Iceman himself on another thread  admitted  the jobs in South Dakota were mostly temp and  low paid cause the lines there were smaller or something to that effect.  

First thing, pull the quote, don't misquote, they are low scale pipeline 28+ per hour (w/health, and pension) and temporary, under a year in length, if there are some here to turn their nose up at low scale that are not Pipeliners they are either the uber rich, or just liars!

drilling will not solve the problem of speculation.

Then you really do not play the Merc do you?? a glut ALWAYS lowers the bids. I've played the merc for years and went to University with a friend that got a seat as a wedding present.

LOL.  that is not what the report from North Dakota said they paid not  anywhere even close to that.  .   Have not checked into South Dakota report but I will.

This issue really gets to me...right when the whole dang world is still struggling and just barely getting back on its feet and Wall Street is running the price of oil making things more difficult for the entire World...For what...Profit...This issue right here clearly demonstrate the free market does not regulate itself like Austrian Economics would like you to believe...some things need to be regulated...in some fashion...Heck it is a crime against humanity...Oh wait didn't I have some XOP?....Oh never mind...However with the current talk about the speculators it might be a good time to consider a short...last time they talked about these things they dumped a bunch from the reserves driving down the price and pushing out the speculators...temporarily...

Agreed, Robert. And we got it right from the biggest horse's mouth. _______________ On May 12, 2011, when questioned by U.S. Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) at a Senate Finance Committee hearing, Exxon Mobil Chairman and CEO, Rex Tillerson said that oil should cost between $60 and $70 per barrel, if the price of oil were based on supply and demand. At the time oil was was going for just under a hundred a barrel __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ And here we are a year later__ haven just been through the warmest winter in recorded meteorological american history. __ Oil output in the U.S. is the highest its been in about 13 years, and the price just keeps going up. And it will continue tot do so__ as long as the Goldman Sachs types, can freely manipulate prices at will, regardless of supply/demand fundamentals. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Robert Biegler:

Fact: Drilling is not a solution to Gas price spikes...Absolutely True....As anyone one of us should easily be able to tell, the price of crude does not reflect the supply and demand for the Product....Wall street is using oil as a hedge against currencies...Just as we saw in 2008 when wall street ran oil up to 140/bbl the current price is based on the speculators not supply and demand...Heck demand is down and production us up and everyone knows that should = low prices........................................................................................................................................So Drilling obviously wont lower prices if supply is high and demand is low....Of course the reason wall can and does use oil as a hedge is because of the fact that demand will rise as soon as the economy gets rolling again...and therefore it is a safe place to park money....but it cost us a bunch of money just to give them a place to park their money and we all pay for it...it is a subsidy for the Rich, it is BS...Speculation is Oil and Gas needs to be regulated...as in you must be able to use the product as part of your business. Goldman Sachs Should not be getting fat on our need for fuel...They don't drill for it they don't refine it they don't pump it or pipe nope...they just shuffle paper...and collect their take...So no...Drilling will not Lower Prices as long as Speculators find oil to be a viable hedge against risk...or as long as we let them...With oil it is especially damaging as oil is used in everything...Gold at least isn't that important...

.....You should really try to catch up on the literature TransCanada's put out__ and otherwise has been revealed, over the past six months to a year, OILman. '''sorry, i of course meant Iceman.

Iceman , we have people work for and with us that don't know doodly squat about anything that think they know everything, working for someone is really not all that great a reference when it comes to knowing more than just the info regarding yourself and your particular job.

Everything considered, yes, the Keystone pipeline will generate some jobs, most temporary but temp is better than none. many will be low paid manual labor, some will be good paid jobs. And it will generate some income in our refineries processing the crude for transporting overseas. But what it won't do is lower gas prices , however, if we are willing to pay Canada more than other countries are it can be a source closer to home than middle East oil and that could be really important, every bit as important as continuing to increase our alternative energy sources.

Barbara Jones:

Iceman , we have people work for and with us that don't know doodly squat about anything that think they know everything, working for someone is really not all that great a reference when it comes to knowing more than just the info regarding yourself and your particular job.

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................$$$ .This is a very telling sentence.....This clearly demonstrates her feelings of superiority over her employees who think they know everything but are stupid and no doubt lazy....she already told us before they have no interest or ability to do what she does....Here she goes on to say that employees are only capable of understanding the simple tasks involved with their particular job and not the complexities of marketing or planning or management of others...And in this case she is implying that Icemans understanding of the company is not valid since he is only an "Employee"......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................$$$....This is one of the most common reasons for small businesses to struggle and often fail...The boss believes that only they are skilled enough to do the work and therefore fails to delegate tasks and authority appropriately...I myself struggle with this...I don't mean to pick on you Barbara...but maybe this is something you should think about...Instead of stifling your employees...think about how you might go about generating interest in your employees to take on more responsibility...And therefore make you more money...

Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning Biegler? What are you talking about.? I think you have read too much into Barbs short paragraph post. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ First off, in the several years that Barb has been posting on these forums, I have never sensed a sense of superiority from her postings. ... And second she is absolutely correct. People do pretend to know more than they do ..all the time, and a lot of folks could tell you very little about what their company is up to ..or even know the CEO's name.

Seti, it is not just this post in which Barbara makes her employees out to be, let us say somewhat lacking,...And while it is true that good help is hard to find, it really is a matter of managing those employees and finding what it takes to make them perform at their best....With Barbara it is all their fault...she bears no responsibility for them having no interest in her business or putting in the long hours...they don't feel like they are part of the business they just feel like hired help...easily replaceable and with no room for advancement....why should they care?...I am not picking on you Barbara, I am just trying to help you Grow and become a better leader, Entreprenuer, and ultimately person...This is one of the hardest lessons to learn when operating your own business...It is difficult to hand over responsibility to others when it is you name on the sign....And until a person can overcome this they limit the size of the business because there is only so much Barbara to go around...Not to mention Barbara is more expensive than Joe, the employee....No need to post a long denial about how well you treat your employees and how they just love you and so on...denial is always the case with this one and small business owners...everyone sees it but them and it always difficult to discuss the subject with them cause they just don't see the problem...because it is them...lol...Good luck Barbara...Hey I am probably wrong but can it ever be waste of time to evaluate the way we do things and how speak to or about others and see if our actions match up with our beliefs...I think I will do that now.....

I don't know what it is that your smoking Robert, but, I WANT SOME. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ We've gotten way off topic here. Generally speaking i believe Barb was referring to an Iceman post claiming that he knew what TransCanada was all about , if only because he works for them. ..... I find you to be a bit too utopian at times my friend. It isn't one size fits all. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Finally, i've never trimmed a tree in my life, (as you can tell from my avatar..lol) but i can only imagine it to be backbreaking hard work. Barb most likely has a very high churn rate in her business. But she can defend herself as you only know too well.

Seti, please don't smoke what Robert is smoking. LOL. you have to fine a brain to go off the deepend like he tends to do on some things. Robert, the fact that we have NO employee turnover with our full-time despite the backbreaking work, the same ones work for us for many years now and that is all I need to say in response to your comments. ************************* But just for you I will go a bit farther and explain a little about our biz, we have plenty of part-time and tryouts come and go and the good ones that would be capable of taking on more responsibility just do NOT want to make a career of tree service work, the work is too hard or they prefer a safer profession, a lot of men don't like running chain saws on ladders, or in bucket trucks and hi-lifts around high voltage wires. etc etc etc, they prefer working on the ground, OR THE good ones start their own biz or go into a line of work that is EASIER, and I assure you we don't need supervisors that just watch and don't want to do the work. Maybe you should know a bit more before offering advice cause you sound like one of the don't know doodly squats that thinks he knows everything.

Robert, one more thing, the only reason we went into such a physically demanding and high risk profession is because the job market and wages in our area fell completely flat when several factories relocated to other countries, and there was a very real need for a professional tree service biz. It is not a business for people who are not willing to do outdoor hard manual labor in the heat and cold, or that are afraid of heights, or that are not good at operating heavy equipment, or that are not geared for painstaking meticulous caution being constantly aware of everything going on around you, and the combination of those qualities pretty much eliminates a rather surprising number of people. Plenty of people are well suited for one or the other, but not so many for all of them. the manual labor heat and cold is the biggest eliminator..

Robert, This is just one more in the long list of her lies! Recently she informed us all "her" employees were being paid prevailing wages yet didn't even know what locals were in her jurisdiction...PREMIUM WAGES, but they just don't know doodly squat. as she knows so much more than me about the oil and gas industry ( bet she is not even smart enough to know how to run a self service gas pump) Please refer all pertinent questions about the industry to a dufus that mows lawns!!

Iceman do not call me a liar, I do not lie, and I pay those that work for me on a percentage basis and that is MORE than the prevailing wage in my area JUST LIKE I SAID. iF ANYONE ON HERE IS A LIAR IT IS YOU. Maybe that is why you think others lie because you lie.

Prevailing wage is the Union wage in the area, so that made you a liar, you made it up so deal with your fantasy!

We don't have any unions in my area just like I said before  but the wages we pay are the same as if we did so  you are the LIAR,  and your lies are getting old, Iceman.  

The word "locals" can mean many things. For instance if you Google the word locals you won't find a reference to unions until the 12 or 13th listing. Not everyone would think of unions when you just throw out the word locals at them Iceman, but whatever. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ And, "prevailing wages" simply means the general prevailing rate of pay for regular, holiday and overtime wages to be paid to each craftsmen, mechanic, teamster, laborer or other type of worker performing work on public works projects when state or municipal funds are used in a given area, which by the way Iceman are set by the federal government that you so despise but yet reap the benefits from. (You really don't believe that if not for unions, you would have made/or are making anything close to the pay you would get otherwise working for the fossil fuels industry, do you? ..... Anyhow, from what i've been able to find on this, its been only lately that the term prevailing wages has become synonymous with union wages, somewhat erroneously, since it includes at times, .. non-union work. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Maybe your the one that should brush up on your own lingo, Iceman. While you fantasize about your empty suit Romney being president of Utah! ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

the iceman:

Robert, This is just one more in the long list of her lies! Recently she informed us all "her" employees were being paid prevailing wages yet didn't even know what locals were in her jurisdiction...PREMIUM WAGES, but they just don't know doodly squat. as she knows so much more than me about the oil and gas industry ( bet she is not even smart enough to know how to run a self service gas pump) Please refer all pertinent questions about the industry to a dufus that mows lawns!!

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Prevailing wage is the Union wage in the area, so that made you a liar, you made it up so deal with your fantasy!